The toll down I-85? Stop using the HOT lane.

The 400 toll is being removed. Mute point.

TSPLOST AUTOMATICALLY expires in 10 years.

Taxes never die. TSPLOST is another scam so the politically connected people get richer and the taxpayers get poorer!

@Rick. Just FYI, it's "moot", not "mute". Grady grad???

Not to be too skeptical, but I find it a bit peculiar Gov. Deal conveniently announces the GA 400 toll will expire at the end of 2013 just before the vote on TSPLOST. Coincidence? Given that Gov. Deal implemented the HOT Toll lanes, I don't think either toll or tax is likely going to end, ever, no matter how unpopular or ineffective. Once the 10 year period is up it will be made permanent or replaced with another tax.

Also, as a current 35 year old Atlanta resident, I'm tired of having to pay for all of the previous residents and politicians procrastination, mistakes and too low tax rates. Current Atlanta residents/property owners now have to pay insane sewer taxes, property taxes, tolls, and now TSPLOSTs because the generations before us kicked the can down the road failing to plan for Atlanta's growth, or at least make sure the tax rates were adequate to grow the city's/state's infrastructure. The only people benefiting from the use of our money are the generations before us and those after. We have to pay for it and deal with the construction headaches, but won't get any of the actual benefit from all of this money being spent. I think it is insane we are being asked to pay the bill for the laziness of the generations before us... including the govt. employees low tax rates and pensions, when they clearly all did a piss poor job. This is just the beginning... imagine when we're told there is no more Social Security, after paying into it over our lifetime, too.

Perhaps they can find the money with magic somehow, I suppose.

This is just a case of "I can read the bill that is now state law or I cant bury my head in the sand and say whatever falsehood I want about the TSPLOST as my reason to vote against it." And many people are choosing the latter. Its really sad to see how people choose lies over reality to make them feel better about something.

@Jreneeb: FYI, a 35 year old is not part of the "baby boomer" generation. The baby boomers had the incredibly low tax rates and the SS/pension benefits none of us going forward will have. Yes, we have an Interstate system, but a lot of work and maintenance wasn't done so we now have to do the work and pay for it... and, the work done wasn't paid for,just look at our debt. Nearly 70% of Atlanta's current city budget goes directly to pay the pensions/healthcare of retired city employees. How about using some of the pension money to pay for the TSPLOST work?

Again, my point is we are stuck paying for some of the catch-up work/maintenance projects that should have been planned/completed/paid for years ago, just like the sewer projects. We won't get see the completion of most of these projects, but we're paying for them. With nearly 30% paid to income taxes, SS, plus 8% sales tax on everything we buy, high property taxes to pay for a school system that delivers a 70% dropout rate, and to pay city retiree pensions, what is going to be left for the rest of us non-government employees to raise and educate our families, pay for our healthcare and save for our own retirements we're solely responsible for? Government will either take what they want through taxes or tolls, or allow us to "vote" our own tax increases/bonds... but the bottom line is governments only know how to inefficiently spend money and there will never be enough in the coffers.

@Meinert

OOOPS MY BAD, but this is an annonymous Internet forum, so you can go @&%# yourself.

Politics 101: don't disclose your position's supporters, pay a $500 fine, and let the sheeple eat cake:

http://saportareport.com/blog/2012/07/campaign-finance-report-still-due-from-metro-atlanta-group-ne-georgia-has-filed/

Bruce: The fact that it sounds like you take the HOT lane is actually an argument in favor of T-SPLOST. The congestion on I-85 is so bad that you cannot take general purpose lanes and have to pay a lot more than you would, for instance, to drive to a park-and-ride in central Gwinnett and take the train into the city. Oh wait, but there is no train yet? After T-SPLOST there would be.

" to drive to a park-and-ride in central Gwinnett and take the train into the city. Oh wait, but there is no train yet? After T-SPLOST there would be."

WHAT? There is no train in TSPLOST for a train in Gwinnett. There is way too much money wasted on a study of a possible train line one day. We love to flush money down the drain on these studies that never seem to result in actually laying any track.

• Unlike Ga 400, HOT lanes, or any other transportation decisions that have been made in the past, the difference with this is that YOU GET TO VOTE ON THIS.

• Indeed, if this doesn’t pass, we’ll probably see more toll roads and HOT lanes being decided for us.

Good point about the toll, however, what would traffic be like if GA-400 were never built? Yes I'm not sure if the tax will expire, but like GA-400 I'd rather it be there than not.

Uh... put your pipe down, this is JAWJUH, not Oregon or New York. (or hell, even Texas at this point!!)

Do you think the Georgia legislature gives a flying crap about Atlanta? This splost was a charity case to them for us. They will laugh if we dont pass it because this is the most they are willing to do for Atlanta. Its so funny how Atlanta folks are so ingrained in the Atlanta bubble, they think the state legislature cares about Atlanta. They dont. Either take this olive branch or complain and whine for another 50 years.

How do you know it will "Never" go away that's PURE speculation. It is written INTO THE LEGISLATION that TSPLOST AUTOMATICALLY EXPIRES in 10 years. If the people don't like the results, it will end.

Voting No is guaranteeing another decade of stagnation in metro Atlanta or worse.

Phil, I concur with Rick on the point that you're simply speculating on the duration of such taxes.

Yes, the facts are that the expiration of the tax was specifically written into the bill to avoid the mistakes of the past. Another full referendum will have to take place in 10 years for the tax to continue.

Actually 100% of the money collected in each county goes to projects in that county. The difference is 85% if the money has to be REGIONAL projects that affect that county. 15% will be for local projects. This is not as explicitly stated than other facts of the law, but if you actually do the math, the percentages that each county will raise actually go direction into regional projects located in those counties. Say if Gwinnett pays for 18% of the total revenue, then 18% of the 85% revenue will fund regional projects that benefit Gwinnett.

I know this is a little too much math for the average Joe, which is why this should have not been a referendum - it should have just been passed period.

Unfortunately, our forefathers of this great city made it very Balkanized. We are 5 million strong in dozens of counties and cities. However, companies and people asses us as a REGION. It is imperative that Atlanta has vibrant suburbs with multiple transportation options that don't take an hour to go from place to place. As well as as healthy CORE.

I also, greatly, greatly, despise money spent on admin, however, admin is a reality in business, government, and nonprofits. Judging from your comments, it sounds like you have never worked in an executive role in either government or business. Please refrain from misleading the people and inducing another decade of stagnation.

There are those that use forums such as these to offer up general rants and narrow-minded opinions. Your statements fall into that category, in my opinion. You may never use the STREETCAR project. Fine. Your son or daughter may move into Midtown 10 years from now and use it everyday. To be sure, there are many people in Douglasville, Alpharetta etc. etc. who's taxes helped pay for improvements in your area. These types of initiatives require a view into the big picture, not myopic financial survivalism.

Your pennies will fund projects of regional significance that benefit Dekalb. I mean, I suppose I could say my Midtown penny will somehow get separated from his other Midtown penny buddies and somehow switch places with a Cherokee County penny gal and end up in some local resurfacing project while the Cherokee penny gal gets stuck in the Multi-Modal Passenger Terminal, but its all going to balance out. People are getting their panties in a wad thinking that their penny might get lost or switched with someone elses penny. Such unnecessary drama.

If there is no 'Plan B' doesn't that indicate to you how dumb our politicians are? And these are the people you want to give more money to?

Toll roads are coming to expressways whether this turkey is passed or not. And to me, they make a bit more sense. Let the people that use the road pay for it. I pay a premium to live intown now partlyt so I don't have to drive on the interstate.

Anyone that thinks a sales tax helps the local economy is smoking too much of something.

Instead of taxing folks to analyze traffic conditions....why not give businesses a tax break for letting their employees work from home? Hey, novel idea...give businesses a tax break! Maybe they will hire more employees with the extra money.....

I'm getting taxed enough already...and now I get 21 more taxes with Obamacare. Enough!

@ Clicker

Sales tax don't help local economies?! So local money, spent locally, and but back to use for improvement in infrustructure locally doesn't help local economies? Have you been smoking?!

@ midtown_girl

Hasn't us giving these large companies tax breaks what got us in this mess? Large companies getting rich and NOT hiring people so they can keep the top management rich and lay off and outsource jobs. I'd rather pay taxes for Obamacare to help the middle class than give tax breaks to big companies who keep their rich mgmt rich and keep our middle and lower class selves struggling.

Keep in mind if you aren't making $250K a year you aren't rich. So all those who's have a house hold bringing in $100-150K that's great but you are still middle class and are going to get screwed just like a household bringing in $10-15K a year!!

@Bryan -

You complain about upper management getting richer at the expense of employees. Don't you see this TSPLOST is exactly the same thing? This 1% sales tax is taking money from taxpayers and then government officials awarding million dollar projects to their buddies. In return, the buddies provide votes to the government officials that awarded them the contract. The buddies and government officials get rich (management) and the taxpayers get screwed (employees).

I'm both an employee and taxpayer...so I'm getting double screwed. If I can stop the TSPLOST screwjob, then I'm better off.

This little penny sales tax will remove $8,000,000,000 from the private, non-governmental economy and be wasted on government shenanigans - 15% for local governments to use willy-nilly. Remove the crack pipe - vote no!

@Clicker: this IS plan B. Plan A has been to ignore the problem for the past 15 years. Plan C will be to just add more HOT lanes to our existing interstates, all while dropping local matching funds for roads that are already there.

This is VERY TRUE. Georgia received a pathetic $750,000 in ARRA funds for transportation projects while Florida was eligible to receive $2,400,000,000 for their transportation projects - WHY? Because they already proved they deserved it because they laid the groundwork, devoted themselves to transportation way back in the 70s. The deciding rule was lets give money to states that are already working to help themselves rather than states that dont seem to care about themselves. California and Florida got almost the whole thing because they were planning to do their initiatives on their own! Georgia got zilch because we arent doing crap! Fla's stupid governor rejected the money however because he is an moron.

If we leverage $6-8Billion for our future transportation in Atlanta, think of all the federal grants we will get priority-listed for because its obvious we are willing to make it happen for ourselves rather than just beg over and over while not showing we can help ourselves. That goes a long way in getting federal grants in these competitive times when other states are vying for the same funds!

Jennifer, I've been seeing the "Big Picture" of Atlanta's demise for forty years now. I've seen what "bad leadership has done to some great schools in the Atlanta Public School System, I've seen corruption from elected leaders, I've seen massive corruption at the Airport.......yeah, I've seen it and you know what?......I'm tired of it.....this $.01 cent tax as you call it will be nothing more than wasted. These people couldn't manage a lemonade stand without screwing it up. I'm not voting to give them any of my money. And, BTW, I know how it's gonna affect me......it's gonna raise my taxes if voted in.....Jennifer, knock, knock, we're in a recession......we don't need any new taxes......open your eyes!!!!!!!!

@bulldogger

HEY BULLDOGGER KNOCK KNOCK, can't you see we're in a recession? We need to invest in our city to make it attractive to business - but more importantly, the YOUNG and CREATIVE people that have made this city world class.

The transparency of the projects, the sunset clause on on the legislation (ending in 10 years), and the HYPER-Competitive nature of business in the 21st century make it imperative that TSPLOST succeeds. Atlanta is no longer competing against the sleepy towns of Charlotte, Birmingham, and Nashville for businesses to locate. We are a global city that needs a world class infrastructure. If you want to live in a place with no taxes move to Somalia. That has worked out well for them.

Well, you got one thing right; voting for this Frankensteinian tax will help you keep your insanity.

What is "dispendable income"? Can I get some? If I get some, do I have to give 1% of it to the government so they can waste it? How do you "set" in traffic? Perhaps we should institute a 1% sales tax to teach basic grammar to green voters. Sounds like a good plan to me...couldn't be any worse than wasting money on TSPLOST.

@Clicker and Nubs...

I didn't know the grammar police were in full force. Guess I missed a few typos, but you two missed all the points of the argument since you were too busy playing English teacher. And BTW, deflecting questions is the sign of a weak debator.

I didn't miss the point. Government wastes tax money and I am not interested in giving them any more of my money to waste. BTW, "dispendable" is not a typo, it is a made up word. Making up words is worse weak debating, it is ignorant.

@ Nubs...the word is dispensable, meaning non essential. One letter off is a typo, not a made up word. As for government wasting your money, what exactly would you prefer, no government? Do you want to go back to a monarchy, a dictator? Government is the best option we have come up with yet, so if you are unhappy with the government, stop complaining and get involved. We the People are the government. We need folks who offer solutions, not uninvolved complainers. This is the best bill we are likely to get for a while dealing with our crumbling infrastructure. Ignoring the problem and whining about the government will only ensure a loss in infrastructure, which will eventually translate to fewer jobs. Businesses will not want to locate here if the infrastructure is falling apart around us.

Your contention that the option to a wasteful government is either no government, a monarchy or a dictatorship is so stupid that I cannot even bring myself to dignify it with an answer...

This is not "tax upon tax" - it is a transparent list of projects and the TSPLOST AUTOMATICALLY expires in 10 years, unless the people want to keep it. IT IS UP TO our leaders to ensure the promised projects and improvements happen over the next decade. If they don't, well, we need to fire them. It's about increasing Atlanta's competitiveness and improving the citizens quality of life. The region must act as a whole because we are perceived as a whole, not just as Cobb County, or Cherokee County, we are perceived as Atlanta, so our suburbs and core need to be strong.

First of all there isn't a bus that runs that route directly, which is why it is being built. Second, it is partly an economic development strategy to have people come downtown and promote growth in our central business district not just for locals but out of towners too. We wan't people to come spend money in the area don't we? Third, telecommuting is not an option all the time and it also takes people away from the city, which takes money away from businesses. Why do we want all our job centers empty of workers? Then go the businesses and then we are right back where we were after G.W. Bush... A RECESSION!!

We need more people downtown and in our cores and options for them to move around OTHER THAN DRIVING. Every major area has great transit options in their cores.

Economic development strategy? Like Atlantic Station? I rest my case.

Here's a novel idea, stop watching Glenn Beck! The business and income taxes are at historic lows! Georgia is dead last in transportation funding, yet we are one of the most populous states in the country. You wonder why people think Georgia is a backwater state? It's because our own citizens strangle the state and its capital city.

Reducing crime intown is higher on my priority list than reducing congestion. In the past 8 years, my car has been broken into 5 times, my husband has been carjacked, my A/C unit has been stolen, a visitor at my house had her car stolen out of the driveway, packages have been stolen off my front porch. I believe crime is a big reason that keeps people from moving intown.

Me stop watching Glenn Beck? You had to make it personal didn't you? You better get back to Nancy Pelosi's hair...her foils are ready to come off.

@midtown- Unfortunately all of the things you listed were why I decided to leave Kirkwood.

Tumors are always real hard to reduce man.

HA, you watch the great, and well armed people of the state of georgia rise up against our government once imminent domain comes in and tries to take their land away from them... try again.

Dude seriously the planners are on your side. Everything we plan has political oversight from the politicians. Place blame where its needed friend. We have more guts than most. If its stupid, it was probably not a planner who came up with it.

Georgia Sierra Club says NO on TSPLOST

http://action.sierraclub.org/site/PageNavigator/20120430_TSPLOST.html

http://action.sierraclub.org/site/DocServer/Sierra_Club_T-SPLOST_Executive_Summary.pdf?docID=10082

When the Sierra Club opposes TSPLOST for not having enough transit and the Tea Party opposes TSPLOST for too much transit, I think we've got about the right balance.

Sierra Club forgets this is Georgia not California. This is LIBERAL for Georgia while conservative for everywhere else.

What a bunch of BS! On one hand we are told we need more transportation dollars and have to approve a increasing the sales tax to 8% or 9% depending on where you are. On the other hand they say they have the funds to pay off the bonds issued to pay for toad capacity additions in the 400 corridor.

I'm against TSPLOST. Tolls or gas taxes are a better way to fund highway expansions, not a tax on milk. Subsidizing driving only skews the decision making by people which results in more driving and more congestion and thus ultimately more costs.

I know it is a typo, but I like 'toad capacity' as a description of other drivers!!!!!!!!!

Ms. Mary, early on I was wondering the same thing. However, my talks and observations have lead me to the conclusion that there is not one.

Please pass the yellow mustard!

I am inclined to agree that documenting a correlation is tough, without a good a proper study.

I observe that the TSPLOST issue will drive more voters to the polls, increasing turnout.

Do you have an opinion on how increased voter turnout affects the incorporation decision?

I think people will turnout in droves to either oppose or support TSPLOST and I think the vote will be a lot closer than people think. TSPLOST advocates are hugely organized and estimate only 50,000 yes voter swing this thing. They budgeted $160 per vote ($8M/50,000-=$160) and now the Gov threw in $.50 by promising to eliminate GA 400 toll.

Soooo, either way, more voters at the poll concerned about the future of Atlanta.

Are more voters helpful to your cause?

Hamburger, are you for or against TSPLOST? I don't like it since it builds roads with general sales tax dollars and basically subsidizes the region's unsustainable growth patterns.

Its also a plan without vision or goals.

Ms. Mary, although a lot of folks will be going to the polls to vote no for T-SPLOST, the cityhood issue is a strong motivator of its own.

Regarding the Brookhaven cityhood issue, there are some extremely strong opinions on both sides of this issue that there will be a higher than normal turn-out for the vote. You drive through Hampton Hall and you see a lot of YES signs and a hand full of NO signs. Much to my surprise, I have talked to more than one homeowner with a NO sign and they will point out folks on their street that are firmly in the NO camp yet have no sign. They just do not want to make waves with their neighbors.

I am hearing that there are many north area neighborhoods that may be 50/50. I find this interesting as this is where the city idea was incubated.

At about 8:00pm on the 31st I predict there will be a lot of cheering and a lot of crying . . . LOL!

Please pass the thin sliced onions!

Mr. Eric, I think T-SPLOST is extremely bad legislation and will create a never ending black hole requiring future tax dollars. Sadly, money spent on rapid rail will also demanding future tax dollars to supplement ope5ration and maintenance and the ridership will never be there. You could buy folks cars and come out well ahead. For work I have never been able to use MARTA with exception of a period when I was flying a lot and took the train to the airport.

I will note that a well thought out bus system has flexibility without the infrastructure costs and if a route is not justified you can change or delete it. Road improvements like the long promised traffic light coordination and improving surface streets with appropriate turn lanes and arrows will improve traffic flow.

Just a few thoughts, but the best is purchasing a home that makes sense with regard to your work and play travel patterns pays off in the long run.

Check out Section If of this link:
http://tinyurl.com/8xjdthb

Special hamburger and a Cheerwine?

" but the best is purchasing a home that makes sense with regard to your work and play travel patterns pays off in the long run. " Very true and part of what plays into the reality of induced demand and why we can never pave our way out of congestion. When I purchased my house I was not sure where I would work but I knew I wanted access to the train. And I've benefited greatly for that decision since for over the past 5 years I've used it daily to get to and from work. It runs on schedule and its stress free (except when I'm checking the Patch messages on the train )

Thanks for the link to the letter, interesting its a "promise" made to the City of Atlanta, hardly the hotbed of the folks complaining about it.

Though really I find the complaints about the toll curious since if not for it, 400 would not have been built so it is an example of if you don't like the toll avoid it. Alternatively the fact that new legislation was passed a year or two ago restricting 400 toll revenues to projects in the 400 corridor one could argue that this is a new toll for new projects and as we all know we don't require a vote for GDOT or the Governor to decide to institute a toll.

I agree buses in HOT lanes are good for the outside 285 though commuter rail would be preferable long term since as seen with the breaking of the promise on the 400 shoulders Buses can't be relied upon long term and thus don't induce supportive development patterns.

Businesses and taxpayers left Ohio thanks to high taxes. Increasing taxes on hard working taxpayers drives people away. A yes vote on TSPLOST is a vote to turn away businesses from Atlanta.

Do you think large Northern cities with outstanding infrastructure and declining populations will see a resurgence because they can support new growth?

Ohio died because GM did not follow Ford and start making cars people wanted to buy, IMHO.

@midtown_girl

You're wrong, they left Ohio because of the exploding opportunities in Atlanta due to investments such as Hartsfield, Marta, and the promise of affordable home ownership DUE TO a good transportation infrastructure. People leave places for the positive, rarely the negative. Atlanta has traditionally been a city of opportunity for young people. Young people WANT TO LIVE IN THE CITY. They do not want to live in the 'burbs. It is a shame that the baby boom generation cannot see that their parents invested in their future, yet this same generation refuses to invest in the Millennials future. Atlanta must remain a magnet for smart people, projects like the Beltline will encourage young people, development, and new ideas.

@Rick

Last I checked there were plenty of condos for sale in Midtown.

TSPLOST encourages sprawl....read the write up by Georgia Sierra Club.

http://action.sierraclub.org/site/PageNavigator/20120430_TSPLOST.html

@midtown_girl

I could care less what the Sierra Club speculates about or what the Tea Party says. The fact that the EXTREMES on the right AND left oppose this makes my belief even stronger this a balanced piece of legislation.

Moreover, if you follow Atlanta real estate at all, instead of merely speculating about something you don't know about, you would notice there are high rise apartment complexes going up all over the city and the condo market is improving.

Rick, yes some large high rise apartment projects are underway in midtown. Why because without this massive road building proposal many people are making the decision to move intown or near the many MARTA rail stations in the region. Why would you want to mess with free market forces. True there is no true free market in transportation and development.

But midtown_girl is correct about the empty condos. Those are 2 different markets since almost all Condos either have covenants or FHA restrictions restricting how many units can be rented out. So they can't meet the demand for rentals - which also is up due to the fact mortgage financing is tougher to get especially for condos.

I agree Eric. Higher taxes kills growth way more than traffic congestion. (consider the mess in California)

Last time I checked...there are plenty of homes/condos for sale intown. I live intown to avoid traffic. Personally, if I have to pay more taxes, I'd like to feel safe walking in my own neighborhood....but that's a whole other topic!

Oh! Well if Mothers and Others for Clean Air are for it...

HAHA!

Clicker, do you have anything to add to the conversation, or are you just on here to belittle a local nonprofit organization that fights for our health? Here's the fact sheet they put together: http://www.junctionatl.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/TIASplost.pdf
"the TIA will reduce nitrogen oxides, a component of ozone, by 245 tons per year and reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 218,000 tons per year."

Fact Sheet? More like an Estimation and Opinion Sheet.

But I am sure they are a wonderful little group of 'Community Organizers.'

And re-establish the Clayton bus service? That money-pit has died one death already.

Huh? Technology is a big part of this. Such as synchronizing traffic lights on almost every major road in the city. If you think it's just about building more roads then you haven't looked at the project list.

This is a STATE tax law man, the entire state is voting on T-SPLOSTS for each region. So of course the legislators did not look at other cities since this isnt specifically an Atlanta thing. Snap out of the Atlanta bubble.

Bam!

If this is the case then please explain how it is that Atlanta ranks 49th in infrastructure investment during the same period in which it has been one of the fastest growing regions in the country.

Amen, Ms.!

Remember when a car inspection was every other year? Now it's every year. Remember when water bills were every other month? Now the bills are 4 times higher and every month. Every time I turn around another government entity/requirement has their hand in my wallet. Plus, the city dips into Department of Watershed funds to pay for 'misc' items...we're talking millions of dollars.

We already pay for infrastructure and gas taxes. TSPLOST is another income revenue for government just so they can turn around and give projects to their buddies in exchange for votes.

Love, love, love, this quote! How true! Ms. for GOV!

Political Compromise is what its called. There will NEVER be a perfect list of projects. NEVER. All of you that are complaining about this being a "pet projects" list, WELCOME TO REALITY this is how politics are done and compromises are made.

Yes, I am sure that streetcar route through the slums of Edgewood is going to be quite popular.

That's the problem with City of Atlanta Government cronyism. They put half of the streetcar line through a part of town that nobody wants to go all in the name of political correctness. Have you driven down Edgewood or Auburn Ave. lately? It looks like Beirut circa 1983. They can't send it north on one of the Peachtrees where people might actually want to use it. Fools.

Don't give them any more money!

Clicker the Edgewood / Auburn Streetcar is being built now so its not a part of TSPLOST. I'm against TSPLOST but for this street car and more transit.

The Edgewood/Auburn Street car was funded in large part by Federal TIGER funds designed to promote urban renewal. You are correct that this area is underutilized which is exactly the reason they are putting the street car here. The grid system for the area is very good for transit and pedestrians - it has good bones. The area is not like Beirut, it is already undergoing significant new development and this street car will enourage more by linking Centennial Olympic Park the Peachtree Center MARTA station and the MLK historic district to this corridor. it will work.

I'm for sensible transportation solutions. My personal favorite is the Clifton Corridor project. However, it's absolutely not worth it to tax Georgians $10 billion dollars to fund gobs of nonsense pork that won't have any effect on congestion, just to see a couple of worthy projects go through. That's just wasteful and frivolous taxation and spending. They need to go back to the drawing board.

I know that streetcars are not part of TSplost Eric.

And using them as a development tool, especially the first phase, is dumb. Put it where people will actually use it first and it has a chance to succeed because if it fails now, people will really be against them. The eastern portion from Five Points to Centennial Park has a chance because it is close to hotels and other sites. .

Underground Atlanta has good bones too, and look at what a massive failure that is. Why? Because it is located in a place that no one wants to be; no hotels, no attractions, just government workers.

I guess time will tell if I am wrong and you are right.

@ Clicker 2:35 pm on Thursday, July 19, 2012

Wow the slums? So I guess connectiong two major tourist attractions that currently don't have direct connect is dumb? I guess all the bar, restuarants, and clubs in the cooridor didn't realize they were in the slums. I guess all the fairly new developments on Highland and Decatur that would come to the Auburn/Edgewood area once development occurs and use the line to travel to the Luckie/Marietta districts bars and restuarants doesn't mean anything? What about the open plots of land that have been cleared and ready for development to make our downtown and surrounding area more vibrant and a 24 hour area doesn't count for nothing. Maybe you should REALLY drive and go to the area to see the changes that have been made and the potential for making the area live, even more than it is. This is an opportunity to now connect the west and east sides of downtown without a car and promote walkable, urban developement in our core!

@ Ms. 3:12 pm on Thursday, July 19, 2012

I'm confused, where are the "gobs of pork" you claim? I see a project list if road improvements through out the region. I see investment in our current transit system and the addition of new options for areas where transit is needed and funding for studies for possible development into others. There are even situation where transit is restored. I see improvements in our aviation system. I see improvements for pedestrians along streets that were unsafe. These are all forms of transportation. Where's the pork?

http://www.atlantaregionalroundtable.com/documents/Fact_Sheets_Final_Investment_List_Higher_Resolution.pdf

There is the list of official project. Why don't you take a look at that before you talk about what is pork and what isn't

Hi Bryan, I've read it, and commented on it pretty extensively. The idea behind this whole project was to improve congestion. So while the things you listed are absolutely wonderful, they are not about improving the congestion. And if they are not, we need to ask ourselves why we're doing this. Improving aviation, great, but that doesn't lessen anyone's commute in traffic. The projects are not detailed actually. Improvements here, improvements there, they're actually quite vague.

Not to mention as you may or may not be aware, there's a cool billion that's not required to be accounted for at all, and that some counties have no idea how they intend on spending. Is this really a good a method to improve congestion?

Have you thought about who is going to pony up the money if the Feds don't come through with their part? Take a guess...

Btw, head on down to Appendix C, this is a better view of what's going on.

http://www.atlantaregionalroundtable.com/documents/final_report.pdf

Connecting two major tourist attractions is dumb if you could be connecting half a dozen instead. Pay attention and I'll say it again. The streetcar should have gone north into Midtown from Five Points where it would be wildly successful first instead of going into the combat zone of the Edgewood area.

People visit Underground Atlanta once and then never return. I wonder why?

Underground is a total failure and has been since about 1998. Otherwise, Coke would not have moved, all the national retail would not have moved, people would actually go there and they would not be trying to rebrand their image every 5 years or so.

And I work downtown so I come here every weekday.

"cram it down our throats?" What are you TALKING ABOUT? This has been in planning for YEARS, it is a compromise of all the various counties and cities in metro Atlanta. I hope you're satisfied knowing you will kill this city because of your misinformation campaign. It's truly pathetic.

You have good posts and information Eric -- thanks.

Mr. Clicker, that may be so, but please don’t tell him things like that. It makes the lives of folks around him just a little more difficult. ;)

Please pass the yellow mustard!

HamBurger, good one. you made me laugh. Thank you for keeping me grounded

Tier 1 cities with the highest productivity rates also have first class transit systems as an altenative. MARTA is a good backbone, but it isn't first class.

TSPLOST wouldn't pass if it was all transit. 50% transit and 50% optimization of our existing road network is a GOOD COMPROMISE.

INFORMATIVE VIDEO
http://www.metroatlantatransportationvote.com/#factsheets

Hi Eric,

1) You are correct! We can't pave our way out of congestion.
2) National and local trends show young people moving into the cities. You are misleading when you claim the majority of growth will happen in the exurbs.
3) The money that is raised will be spent locally, and improve the quality of life for ALL citizens of Atlanta.
4) Why can't we be a tier 1 city that doesn't have congestion? Are you arguing our productivity will go down without congestion? How about Atlanta becomes a model for all suburban sprawl cities across the US and we fix our problem?
5) The TSPOLOST expires in 10 years. Deal with it.
6) The spending on this will accelerate growth and keep Atlanta competitive with other cities of its stature. Do you want Atlanta to compete with NY or Charlotte?

The "do nothing" option is always on the table. For 25 years this is what Atlanta chose, and now we have some of the worst traffic and sprawl in the country. Frankly, your strategy sucks.

Atlanta's new strategy is to regionally implement a variety of transit options for the suburbs, and enable people to live around mass transit with families in Atlanta's core. The vision for Atlanta to be THE next great American city is there. Help us make it happen.

Rick you love the misleading word. Basically calling people who don't agree with you liars is sophomoric.
here is a sampling
County Projected Pop Growth. %increase
Cherokee 194,200 99%
Forsyth 201,600 114%
Douglas 128,100 99.8%
Coweta 128,800 107%
Hall 167,600 93%
Paulding 154,000 118%
Gwinnett 412,600 new people the highest number of new people.
DeKalb (includes COA) 191,900 26%
Cobb 183,400 27%
Fulton (includes COA) 373,300 39%
Clayton 40,700 14.5%
Newton 103,300 106%
Rockdale 75,000 88%
Henry 239,100 123%

of the 3 million people 240,000 is forecasted to go into City of Atlanta (most of this # is in Fulton with some in the DeKalb. So COA gets 8% of the new people and it now has 8% of the 5.2 million people. Gotta tell you that sounds like same old same old to me and the numbers up there show I'm not being misleading about where most of the growth is going.

And do nothing for 25 years? Up until the Olympics we were expanding MARTA but unfortunately also expanding roads at the same time thereby opening up greenfields so jobs and housing would be drawn away from the MARTA stations where its needed.

Its only after the road freeze that road building slowed down and that's one of the reasons for the rebirth of interest in building in COA.

The beltline and the Tiger Auburn/Edgewood train will be great for COA. The Beltline trail is being built without TSPLOST, yes transit will take longer. The Tiger Train is already funded.

"And if we prove to have no faith in our leaders or institutions, why should outsiders looking to invest time, energy and money have that faith either?"

That first part I certainly agree with and just another reason I can't bring myself to vote for it. I have no faith in the people running the show. And don't want to enable their continued mismanagement.

And "the outsiders" will recognize TSPLOST failure for what it is, a poorly executed piece of legislation. And they will adjust their decisions accordingly, locating where existing infrastructure is. And maybe growth won't be as fast as it could be but do we really need to add 3 million people to the 5 million we have now?

Exactly! Vote YES!

So if they refuse to fund a 1% for MARTA like DeKalb and Fulton should and instead continue to emphasize roads you are just enabling this destructive pattern by giving them more money via TSPLOST to build more sprawl inducing roads.

Mr. Phil, about that one per cent tax . . .

http://www.adamgoldfein.com/2012/06/truth-test-tsplost/

Special hamburger and a Cheerwine?

Thanks for the "seems to know her stuff" comment but then following it with your rant that was not based on any sort of recognizable fact or foundation, a statement that is basically just a dump of negativity without suggestions for solutions, is unnerving and felt (you probably didn't mean it to) misleading. Just to be clear, my entry in no way supported anything that you said or mentioned, Atl Resident.

Don't fool yourself. Obama didn't get Osama. The military did... Obama just gave the okay. No brainer.

Reminds me of a joke, Atl Resident

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWpU8sX10_4

I could not resist

Rick, teh gas tax idea, which I am a big supporter, is way too simple, easy and appropriate for our "great" state "leadership" to endorse or even study!

If gas were $6.00 per gallon I bet Marta would start looking pretty good. Forget TSPLOST and let's solve public transportation. Then see where we are.

Atl Resident,

While I agree that Obama has been a disappointment overall, I don't understand how passing TSPLOST will insulate Georgia from the rest of the country. Please elaborate.

@Atl Resident your dumb. you wrote: " Even though I am not a fan of the worst President ever (Obama), I wished well when he got elected and I said prove me wrong. He could have been a hero if did not through so much money away. Other than saving the banks, he has thrown our tax dollars away. Now he wants to spend it on infrastructure," geez you fool you need to stop just listening to the Right Wing talking heads. The President has been highly effective and saved our economy from the Bush recession. He made the risky call to go in and get Osama, and more importantly he saved countless good manufacturing jobs by going against Mitt Romney and others advice and saving the U.S. Auto Industry. Bush did the bank bailout, Obama finished it up but Elizabeth Warren who he appointed put or attempted to put on several safeguards regarding it. But more to the point of showing how your grasp on facts is incorrect is that the majority of the stimulus funding Obama directed was for infrastructure.

Regarding the port, just what is in the TSPLOST that will help with Freight Traffic? Is the TSPLOST funding capacity enhancements to our congested freight rail lines? NO. Which is a shame because they could fund Commuter Rail and address commuter congestion and while doing that also add capacity to the Freight rail system.

Heck their isn't even a major highway project directed at the truck freight. That's going to go up 75 since the rest goes up 95 Not 85 from the port

Of course you have the right to say he is the worst President ever. And i have a right to call you dumb when you base that assertion on incorrect statements.
"hopefully we will have a leader and not an arrogant divider." Oh yes because John Boehner and Eric Cantor are just the nicest folks and they didn't mean it when they said that they don't want the economy to recovery to quickly because it would help Obama.
"Other than saving the banks, he has thrown our tax dollars away." What does this mean?
" Now he wants to spend it on infrastructure," Most of the stimulus money spending went to infrastructure projects. " http://www.usnews.com/news/stimulus/articles/2009/05/22/obamas-stimulus-projects-wont-amount-to-major-infrastructure-overhaul
Oh and by the way as a part of the stimulus Obama has lowered taxes for everyone.
I'm not trying to insult just calling it as it is.

Is that link like the "Win Dinner with Barack" contest you see on all of the websites featuring cats doing tricks and fat people dancing? (Not to mention the unmentionable ones, I'm sure.)

It's amazing how far the Obama campaign has sunk - the Presidency is now in the same league as a Food Network challenge.

So we should never build any more infrastructure in this town to prevent any business from benefitting from it? What kind of logic is this?

Oh Snap! you sure zinged me! No seriously people are looking at me wondering why tears are streaming down my face.